tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17681596.post113336455396174138..comments2023-09-24T06:26:35.130-06:00Comments on Pensajes de Pamela: convergence: persuasion and povertypamelahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03161119497849881547noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17681596.post-1133457505337055442005-12-01T11:18:00.000-06:002005-12-01T11:18:00.000-06:00E-I agree with your first point. In general, peopl...E-<BR/>I agree with your first point. In general, people use the means they have to effect change. Sometimes persuasion and civil disobedience get the attention of other citizens and government and sometimes they don't. <BR/><BR/>I should clarify that McLaren did not say that appealing to legislative action or the courts should be excluded from one's tactics in changing society. His point was just that a better starting place for many issues is dialogue with your neighbor and in your local community. The national rhetoric on so many issues is so polarizing that people aren't even really talking or listening to each other. <BR/><BR/>Edwards' proposals (which included increases in the EITC, section 8 voucher flexibility, more transportation and child care assistance for the working poor, and greater investment in early childhood programs) do involve government action, but rather than simply lobby the government himself for those things and leave it at that, I think he is trying to raise awareness around the country about the problem of poverty, which in the long run may do more good. If more people understand that we all have a stake in what happens to the poor, not only will there be increased pressure on the government to employ better policies, there will also be a resurgence in local political and social action to find private sector resources and strategies for addressing the local issues caused by poverty.<BR/><BR/>I live in mixed housing too. To create more of that kind of housing for poor people has a qualititative benefit that may be difficult to measure, but I am sure there is a quantitative benefit too because when people care more about where they live they will tend to treat that place better. Also, when people live in more diverse socio-economic neighborhoods, it provides opportunities to develop better social networks which can lead to better economic opportunity.<BR/><BR/>I know we don't see these issues exactly the same, but thanks for your stimulating comments, my friend. : )pamelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03161119497849881547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17681596.post-1133452044088607882005-12-01T09:47:00.000-06:002005-12-01T09:47:00.000-06:00I suppose I'd argue that persuasion and civil diso...I suppose I'd argue that persuasion and civil disobedience have been the "hallmarks of social change" so often because they've generally been used on behalf of those who don't have much other political and social agency.<BR/><BR/>Granted, the US has more than its share of influence peddling, but the citizenry still has some expectation of being heard in the context of the current system.<BR/><BR/>Also, I'm honestly curious how those techniques would be used to combat poverty. The proposal that Edwards put forward is clearly a part of the legislative/legal process. (And I should point out that my last two apartments here in NoVa were both mixed housing: some at market rates, some at subsidized ones.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17681596.post-1133384505100687742005-11-30T15:01:00.000-06:002005-11-30T15:01:00.000-06:00RLP,I saw you and Rudy--wish we could have chatted...RLP,<BR/>I saw you and Rudy--wish we could have chatted after the event. I hope you'll join us in January when we start meeting again.<BR/><BR/>The polarization Brian described concerns me greatly. But I am hopeful that, through people like him and Jim Wallis, some bridges can be rebuilt. There is a great need for healing within the church.pamelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03161119497849881547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17681596.post-1133371184495931862005-11-30T11:19:00.000-06:002005-11-30T11:19:00.000-06:00I was there. Sitting a little behind you with Rudy...I was there. Sitting a little behind you with Rudy. Very enjoyable and got me thinking about a number of things. Like you I was struck by the idea of changing through peaceful protest and careful living instead with legislation. At least you start with peaceful living even if you end with legislation.<BR/><BR/>I particularly liked his comment that the liberal vs. conservative struggle that is taking place in so many denominations is the Cold War of the church.Real Live Preacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03757644935379896122noreply@blogger.com